Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: Poverty In Brazil
My good sistah friend who is African American is opening up a manufacturing plant in Bahia to help pull some Afro-Brazilians out of poverty while her father who will be retiring to Brazil next month is working with Stephen Biko University to help Afro-Brazilians get into universities in Brazil. When I speak of Brazil I basically mean the state of Bahia because that is the only part of Brazil that I am really familiar with. I'm in no way stating that the Bahians wouldn't like material goods BUT I noticed that they still had more Black-On-Black love in Bahia than in the States amongst African Americans. Furthermore while in Bahia I noticed that the emphasis was not so much on materialism like it is in the States. I might be romanticizing Bahia but obviously there IS something there that attracts African Americans as there wouldn't be tours for African Americans to visit Bahia started by founder of Essence magazine,Clarence Wilson if this weren't so. If you don't believe that African Americans think that Bahia is a powerful land and has many gifts to offer us check out this website www.avocettravel.com.
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: To Macunaima
A lot of African Americans desire to move to Bahia may be part real and part dream but it's the magic that keeps a lot of us getting up going to work in a dead,soul less culture like the United States every morning. Me,in spite of Bahia's problems I still choose to make Bahia my home. I was talking to my doctor,a Jewish woman who told me that she only dates Cuban,Brazilian and Jamaican men because American men are burned out,soul less and not in touch with their bodies and feelings like men from warmer cultures are. Now she may be romanticizing these men but both she and her daughter are involved with Cuban men; her daughter engaged to be married soon to a young Cuban man. She told me that these men have the salt,sea and wind in their skin,it's a part of their culture and their soul and this is what Americans are stating when they speak of Brazil and Brazilians. True,Brazil has it's problems but they are warmer,happier people than soul less Americans.
I understand exactly what you mean, I was trying to explain different things to mac. I understand where he's comming from becasue he lives in brazil, and he's beeing touched by the violence there and he's being angered by some american ignorance. Which I understand.
I, too want to at least live in Bahia for a year or so before I make a long term commitment. One of the things that I found interesting about brazilian women, is that they're happy with nice, caring, compassionate and loving men, which a lot of young american women are NOT into. All of which, I am. It doesn't matter of they're dark skinned, or light skinned, I just want a nice girl. It doesn't matter how poor or rich she is. I'm a hard worker, but I feel that a lot of american women are too into money and material things. I believe in having a comfortable life, but I need a woman that is happy with herself, and I've found that a lot of brazilian women ARE happy with themselves, and money is just a plus. That's becasue they have good spirits.
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: I Agree!!!
Actually Mac has the experience of being in Brazil for decades while I only spent two weeks in Salvador & Cachoeira,Bahia so he definitely has the 411 on the country. Still those two weeks that I spent in Bahia were enough to convince me that Bahia definitely is a powerful land and has a lot of gifts to offer African Americans. True,financially we can help our poorer Afro-Brazilian brothers and sisters out but they have lots of immaterial things to offer us as well. It's kind of like one hand washing the other. True dat I LOVE myself some Brazilian men because they are "warmer" than American men,more in touch with their feelings and bodies and are on the average fine and sexy. They have the wind,the sea and beach in their skins. I ain't too happy with the Brazilian man that I have right now because sometimes I get the feeling that he really doesn't want me in his life and he explains his absences by stating that he works a lot which is true because he is in the U.S. illegally so he often has to work long hour with low-paying,dirty work to make ends meet especially here in the Bay Area where things are so expensive. I offered to help him get legal status in this country but he won't work with me on this so I stopped bothering him about it. I feel like if he wants to continue living in this country illegally and risking arrest and deportation back to Brazil than that is his problem not mine. There's a Capoeira Arts Cafe in Berkeley near UC Berkeley campus that is giving a Halloween party this weekend to raise funds for this Brazilian dance studio and I'm going to go up in that mo and keep my eyes opened for myself a loving,affectionate Brazilian man that wants to spend a lot of time with me. If you live in an area that teaches samba and other Brazilian dance classes that's a good way to meet a Brazilian lady living in the States. Either way I'm sure you'll find one in Bahia that you like cause most brothers that I met over there had met and married Bahian women. I don't know if I would want to marry a Bahian man and bring him to the States because it may be too much of a culture shock for him to deal with especially if he doesn't speak English. Ache!!!
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:13 pm Post subject: You Have Time On Your Side!!!
You're a young man and still have time on your side so if you go to Brazil and meet a Brazilian woman who you fall in love with and want to marry and bring to the States I think it could work. I personally feel that if two people are truly in love then they can overcome the barriers of culture,language and geographical distance. Now in the case with my ex from Brazil I felt like he was not working with me to get legal status in this country that's why I left it alone. I also felt like he didn't appreciate my efforts in helping him get legal status in this country because as his "sponsor" I'm the one who the INS is watching more than him. I'm not saying that a person has to be kissing all up in my patooty none for me to help them get legal status in this country but I also don't like to feel like I'm helping someone who has no real gratitude either. If you want a wife from Brazil this is where Mac can really help you because he's privy to the games some Brazilian women play on unsuspecting Americans to get them to marry them and get a green card. Ache!
Yea I agree. He's actually warned me to look out for prostitutes. That's one of the reasons that I've been trying to communicate with people that have or or dating a brazilian woman. Or some people that are married to a brazilian. I've heard lots of people say that brazilian women are genuinely nice and, for the most part honest. I've been talking to a few girls online, just to get a feel for them. I HAVE found that they're pretty obvious. Some women will tell you that they just want to live with you in your home, in exchange, they'll pretty much cook, clean, and give a man sex... they just want out of brazil, and they'll tell you! Some girls have been into friendships, and some girls are moving extremely fast. Fortunately I've been played by women before, and I'm kinda familular with the routine. There are nice girls and there are loose girls. I've noticed that the really nice ones are the ones who are really interested in WHO you are, not what you do. They normally ask you questions about you, your family, your likes and dislikes. There are some good girls who are honestly interested in dating foreign men. These are normally the girls that try to appear as educated as possible. They are proud of being in school, and proud of having a job. I've also found that you can kinda freeze them by telling them how much you hate women that try to use men, and be as blunt as possible. I've found that the users either don't know how to respond, or they respond so much that they expose themselves. The nice girls will acknowledge that there are women that are like that, and give you more of themselves to show you that they aren't that way.
I've been told by a lot of brazilian women, that the men in brazil are nice, but they're either lazy or unfaithful. I think that patience will expose all truths. I know that I can't instantly fall in love with anybody, and no one instantly falls in love with people. I know that the culture may be different but women are still women. Some men think that just because a woman is in school, or has a job, that she won't use him. I feel that you can be used by anyone. To me, those are the women that you have to look out for, becasue they're ambitious. Sometimes ambition can cause people to become self-centered. Some poor girls just want out. They're not trying to use you to get the "american dream" because they don't have that desire. Some of them just want to be in a better situation, with a man that's going to respect them. I've even heard lots of stories about prostitutes marrying and actually becoming good wives. I'm not saying that I want a prostitute or anything, but I'm just saying that we can't use the life that people live in brazil as a guage on how they deal in america. I think that you can find good women if you're patient and positive, and open to dating different people.
I do understand what you're saying, Opesl, which is why it doesn't piss me off. It just comes off sounding a bit patronizing, that's all. I know it's not meant that way.
As to hip hop artists and violence, we get a lot of that here, too. I presume you've heard about the "proibidões", correct? Or how about Tatí Quebra-Barraco, a local rap artist we have here in Rio. Here's a bit from her hit song, which we hear almost every weekend on the morros...
"A Ho's Rep"
It doesn't matter
I'm gonna trash you anyhow
I got a rep as a ho simply because I fucked your man...
ABG sez:
Quote:
I might be romanticizing Bahia but obviously there IS something there that attracts African Americans as there wouldn't be tours for African Americans to visit Bahia started by founder of Essence magazine,Clarence Wilson if this weren't so.
Well, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that what those people think they see really exists in the way they think it exists. Being black is no innoculation for ethnocentrism.
Bahia, as many black political activists here have pointed out, loves to paint itself as the heart of black Brazil. Nevertheless, it is one of the WORST states when it comes to racial exclusion. AFAIK, they've never even had a black senator, governor or congressman elected there. Power's in the hands of ACM's family and likely to remain so for the forseeable future. And ACM keeps the reigns firmly in hand precisely by clientelism which includes funding for many of those self-same cultural events you enjoy.
Adrianerik's up in Bahia now, working with folks who are apparently outside of this scheme. but to the degree that you're outside of it, you aren't down in Pelourinho, putting on government funded shows for the tourists and that's where the money is.
This idea that there are "warmer" and "cooler" cultures is something I don't buy. You can't stick a thermometer in culture. What can you measuring, exactly, other than your own subjective opinion? And if it's your opinion, cool. But with only a few weeks in Brazil to go upon and some invlvement with the Brazilian expat community in the States, that definition probably says more about you and your desires than it does about Brazilian realities.
Have you guys read what Franz Fanon, the African-Carribean psychologist and revolutionary has to say about this sort of stuff in "Black Skins, White Masks"? He makes a very cogent critique of how people - both white and black - project their affective fantasies off on subaltern others. From what I'm hearing here, it seems that there's some of this going on in some African American views of "warm, spiritual" Bahians.
From where I stand, it looks perilously close to typical American romantization of the so-called "noble savage". What you seem to be saying is that a "real" black Brazilian needs to be a poor fisherman or something, not, say, an investment banker. Because let me assure you, I know very few investment bankers, of any color, who could be described as having "the salt, sea and wind in their skin". This is very pretty and poetic, but it's a dangerous naturalization of culture. It's just a hop, skip and a jump from that kind of opinion to "oh, black Brazilians are just so natural and have such good rythym" or "blacks can be good entertainers, but not mathematicians, because it just isn't in their culture..." And if this is how "black and Brazilian" is defined, there's no room for the vast majority of contemporary black experience in Brazil, which is overwhelmingly urban and contemporary.
Now, Opelsc, you say "One of the things that I found interesting about brazilian women, is that they're happy with nice, caring, compassionate and loving men, which a lot of young american women are NOT into".
Don't you think it's possible that you're generalizing your experiences with a relative handful of Brazilians to the entire country? While I don't think Brazilian men, overall, are any worse than American men, I don't think they are better and "nice, caring, compassionate and loving" is hardly their rep with most Brazilian women who I listen to. In fact, most Brazilian women I know are as unsatisfied with their country's men as you two seem to be with Americans. Take a look at our domestic violence statistics. Up until about 15 years ago, it was perfectly legal for a man to kill a woman in the "legitimate defence of his honor" here. And Tatí Quebra Barraco - who's something of a role-model to many young cariocas, has this to say about men...
"I'm ugly but I'm in fashion"
I spent 3 months without stealing someone else's man
I'm ugly, but I'm in fashion
I got money enough to take men to hotels and that's what's important...
I think that there's a lot here for anyone to learn and enjoy. But I think too many Americans aren't dealing with Brazil. Instead, they are projecting their needs, desires and fantasies onto a big blank screen called "Brazil". Frex, many black Americans seem to think that Bahia is the most powerful black area in Brazil when in fact it is anything but. Abdias de Nascimento, probably one of Brazil's most well-known black thinkers and an ex-federal senator, has been very scathing about the comercialization of black culture in Bahia. According to Abdias, "The old masters have no problems in watching capoeira, going to a candomblé ritual or listening to drums. That's all a picturesque part of Brazilian culture that's nationally accepted and it's been turned into sort of a stereotype of black life. But what the elite of Bahia WILL NOT do is share power or prepare the next generation of black youth to share it".
For, lovely as Bahia may be, it is in southern, urban Brazil where black men and women have achieved some measure of poltical equality and financial success. Almost all of our black leaders have been elected in the south. The leader of our black caucus in congress is, in fact, a gaucho. Our affirmative action programs were born in southern universities. Our first black university will be in São Paulo. The national political force that supports such things as the quilombo lands resolution in the constitution is rooted in the south. Urban black and mestiço Brazil has built an entire way of life (or better yet, several ways of life) down here that is dynamic and uplifting in its own way as anything produced by the Harlem Renaissance, but, save for a few rare exceptions, this whole thing remains off Black America's radar screen because it isn't what most black Americans want to imagine Black Brazil as being. It's not exotic enough.
Wilson Moreira, for example, was pushing black issues in his music DECADES before anyone heard of Olodum and the like in Bahian pop. But because he did it in a lyrically sophisticated, melodic orientated samba-choro tradition, I very much doubt that there's more than a handful of black Americans who've heard of him, in spite of a career which has spanned 50 years.
On the old board, there was this one nimrod who was constantly preaching about how horrible samba was becoming because it was being "influenced by white melodies and thus losing it's pure African aspects". But samba is and always was a syncretic style which incorporated rythym and melody. It grew from a mixture of jongo, waltzes, maxixes, choro, jazz and pop. It is a MODERN musical form. It was born in urban Brazil in the 1920s and '30s and not inherited from Africa and all the black "roots" bambas here in Rio know this to be a fact. But when I mentioned this to this guy, he started yelling about how I was a white racist trying to "steal the pure African samba tradition from black Brazilians".
Go figure.
Many of my black carioca friends love Bahia, but many also hate it the way Richard Wright hated Mississippi. They call it "Afro-Disney". My wife avoids going up there for conferences whenever possible because - as a successful, professional black woman with a PhD - she simply doesn't fit into the Bahian view of how things should be. If she goes into a nice restraunt to eat, as often as not, she finds herself being pressured to leave or pushed to the back of the room near the kitchen by waiters who presume that she must be a prostitute (why else would a black woman be dining alone in a chic venue?)
When we were up in Washington D.C. last year, Silvia often remarked how she could make a fortune by putting on some sort of "Afro-Brazilian" religious act for people. "But it'd have to be something they'd find exotic, romatic and primitive," she'd say "otherwise the gringos won't be interested". Then she'd laugh and say "Ironically enough, my grandmother was a lifelong member of one of the most "roots" catholic brotherhoods in Rio, the first one founded by black artisans in the 18th century, a church that was heavily involved in the Abolition struggle. But do you think people would see that as 'black Brazilian religion'? No. Theyd think that that would be 'just' Catholicism. If it's 'black' religion, you gotta have a drum in it somewhere".
Likewise, when we visited the candomblé center in D.C., we got this big rap about how candomblé represented "black resistance to slavery". In fact, in Rio de Janeiro during the 1800s, many candoblistas were the masters' MILITIA, called out to put down threats to public order. It's a great martial art that comes from diverse roots, most of these African in origin, but it can in no way, shape, or form be organically linked in a privileged to black resistance to slavery and racism. When I asked the guy "Isn't it simply enough that candomblé is a beautiful art form and an effective martial art which can help young people at risk? Why does it have to be turned into a resistance movement, something it never was in Brazil? It's like saying that boxing somehow represents the class struggles of 19th century English workers and their desries for revolution". It seems to me disrespectful to ignore the history behind these things - which is as rich and inspiring as anyone could hope for - in order to bowdlerize them for American consumption. Try as I might, I just can't see respect for black Brazilian history in practices and ideologies which effectively deny the complex and ambivalent realities of black Brazilian histories in favor of comforting American "just-so" stories.
So I would suggest that you enjoy Bahia, but realize that it is no more "roots" a black culture here in Brazil than many other scenes. There are many fine people, things and projects in Bahia, but to buy into the idea that the place is somehow the "center" of black life is to buy into a myth that has been systematically and consciously forged, in many ways, by white racists looking to contain the reach of black culture and politics in Brazil. Olodum might be Afro-Brazilian, but so is choro, just as in the U.S. you have work songs and jazz. Candomblé is a black religion here, but so is Catholicism and even atheism. Black culture in Brazil is plural and most of it is as modern - both in positive and negative ways - and contemporary as anything you'll find in the U.S.
Enjoy Bahia but make sure that your fantaises about what you want Brazil - and Bahia in particular - to be don't end up papering over black Brazil's history. Most of what you see up in Bahia is a relatively modern invention: it is not some sort of "pure" remnant of western Africa.
BTW, another GREAT, GREAT book for you to read would be Ruth Landes "City of Women", the first American ethnography done on Candomblé in Bahia. It was written in the 1930s and even then, Landes was quite aware that Candomblé was a living syncretic religion, changing as modern needs drove it, and not a western african cultural "left-over", frozen in amber. Then compare what Landes saw in the 1930s with the so-called "millenial traditions handed down unchanged from our ancestors" which many terreiros will try to hype you on today. You'll see how plastic Afro-Brazilian spirituality really is.
This, to me, is Afro-Brazilian spiritualism's greatest strength and attraction, BTW. I always loved what Luisa Teish said when she wrote "If you don't have a crystal glass for your ritual, use a dixie cup". But this sort of plasticity and contingency is hardly what many Black Americans, in search of their "spiritual roots", are looking for when they come to Salvador.
Sorry for preaching here.
Axé e saravá. _________________ Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!
I really loved that post...a lot to take in in one sitting, but I'll try. (smile)
I'm a man of instincts, and I go with what my gut says. I never considered one particular region as being the blackest, as a matter of fact, I'v considered Bahia to be something that is sold to people to make money. I never want to visit caranaval, because I don't want to be pimped, and I don't want the people to be exploited. As a matter of fact, few of the nice brazilian women that I've talked to WEREN'T from bahia. As I've said before, I never wanted to visit brazil because of it's african heritage. I feel that the best place for that would be africa. Honestly, I want a brazilian woman, becasue I want someone from another culture.
I have only talked to a few of them, but I've recieved a better responce from them than I would the same number of african american women...this I know. What have you learned about women in brazil?
Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:55 pm Post subject: MY REAL POST
I only had 5 minutes to write that last post, so it's not complete but here is the whole thing.
As a born again christian, the whole "spirituality" thing never attracted me.
The only "spirit" that I'm concerned with is the Holy Spirit.
I never saw "black brazil" as being exotic or anything, as a matter of fact, I've just realized that there were people that looked "black" in brazil. That was ignorant. The brazilians that we're familular with are the tan-skinned women with the long black hair. So the whole african thing is completely new to me...as of the past couple of months. One of the problems that I've faced is that I've heard too much from too many people. Some people tell you that the only place an african american can find a woman is in the northeast, some tell you that all they want are white or european looking men. I've heard that in the south, people are facinated with blonde hair and blue-eyed people. Yet, some people say that black men will have no problem finding a lovely lady in brazil. The fact is that brazil is a diverse country. I see where you're comming from with your statements. You want people to experience brazil as the TRUE brazil, not what they have imagined it to be. Unfortunately, all we have as americans is hear-say. We don't know about the depth of brazil. Honestly, until recently I knew NOTHING about Salvador, or Bahia. All I knew of was Rio. I knew nothing of a "black brazil" all I knew of were "brazilians". I've also been told that many of the "blacks" in brazil suffer from an inferiority complex. They say that many blacks in brazil look at anyone that looks european as "better" than them. I'm sure that may be true in some cases and false in others. The truth is that we HONESTLY DON'T KNOW! I wouldn't want anyone to generalize african americans the way that we generalize brazilians.
This may sound kinda crazy, but I never wanted to find black brazil. I saw living in brazil (that's what I plan to do, at least for a year) the same way I saw living in France or Spain, except I found brazilian women more attractive. There are lots of black cultures in the world, and I truthfully was trying to get away from those cultures. You see, years before I started studying portugueese, I studied French, spanish and italian. I wanted to break the mold of what a 23 year old african american man was thought to be. I'll always find brazilians attractive, and I truly want a real relationship with one. Personalities are personalities, and women are women. And I think that unique look of many brazilians is HOT!
It's just kinda intimidating when people tell you that as a black person, you're only welcomed in northeastern brazil. The human mind is a prison, and ignorances are the handcuffs and shackles that bind us.
I've been learning a lot from this forum. I was kinda hesitant to comment becasue I didn't want it to turn into one of those forums that got nothing accomplished. I didn't want it to turn into a "do brazilians like blondes" discussions. Inteligance is exciting to me. A day the we don't learn anything, is a day that we're not living. I have to admit, it's easy to get caught up in what we THINK is best for a people that we don't even know.
Truthfully, the only thing that we can do is be the best people that we can be, in whatever situation that we're in. I know there are lots of things that I DON'T understand about brazil, but I'm more than open to learning whatever I can. I don't want to go to brazil and experience the tourist attractions. I want to go to learn about brazil. Your friends are right about bahia being an "afro-disney". Disney world is fun and exciting your first couple of visits, but after a while, you begin to see the inner workings of it. I've never been into the entertaining aspect of brazil. All of the dancers and singers that are placed there for the tourist, are kinda like a brass band that plays at the same club every night. You realize that they're doing it becasue the bills have to be paid, though they may like what they do. With all of that said, I STILL think that brazilian women are HOT!
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:04 am Post subject: I Agree With Your Post!!!
I agree with your post and feel that if you find Brazilian women hot and want to pursue a relationship with one I say go for it! This young African American guy from San Francisco who wrote his book "Therezinha" did not go to Brazil per se to find a Brazilian woman he basically went for carnival but while there he did meet and fall in love with one. He said on his way to Brazil he stopped in Miami and visited his uncle who had married a woman from the Dominican Republic and he said that visit with his Dominican aunt put it in his mind the ideal that he wanted to marry a woman from another country. Now me,personally I LOVE Brazilian men I don't care how many behinds they've kicked. Brazilian men may or may not be better than other men and I might be projecting my fantasies unto Brazilian men and making them out to be these fine,sexy,exotic beings but I still want one. I believe in my heart that dreams are worth having and if it's your desire to have a beautiful Brazilian soulmate what's wrong with that? We want what we want for our own personal reasons. Now me, I was aware of an African presence in Brazil after reading a 1977 article in Essence magazine "Bahia:Africa In The Americas" by anthropologist Sheila S.Walker who is now teaching at Spelman college. Ever since reading that artice when I was 17 years old I've always had a "mild obsession" with Bahia and it's religious tradition,Candomble. My desire to make Bahia my home and to pursue a Brazilian husband may be by F-A-N-T-A-Z-Y but it's what gives me my passion in life. It makes living in America and working on a job I don't particularly like bearable because I have the dream of moving to Bahia and getting a Bahian man always before my eyes. I'll encourage you to continue in your pursuit of a Brazilian wife and you do likewise for me in my desire to move to Bahia and find a Brazilian husband. It's a dream both of us share so we should encourage each other in that pursuit. Ache!
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: I Agree With You Also About African American Women
I agree with you about African American women as well. Being a 45 year old African American woman I notice that when you get a large group of Black women together you get m-e-s-s. Even the African American women on my job got angry with me when I visited Bahia,Brazil in 2003. They have a world the size of a postage stamp and date men who are either incarcerated are on parole and tend to resent a Black woman who breaks rank and doesn't want that kind of life. I used to attend a Black Women's Support Group and I got tired of that because first of all Black women don't want to do anything but sit around eating unhealthy food and dissing each other and also as a race of women we don't like to uplift one another. I noticed more of a positive sense of sisterhood amongst Afro-Brazilian women while visiting Bahia and a tendency for them to be in better shape than most African American women who tend to be grossly obese. I can see on some level why Black men who want to achieve something in life get with other races of women because truthfully Black women can be a negative,draining force with a limited outlook on life. I take a samba class that is taught by a Bahian actress and most of the participants in the class are white women who have travelled to Brazil and are dating Brazilian men. I talk to them about my dreams of Bahia because they will uplift and encourage me in my pursuits whereas Black women will try to piss on my parade. White women generally are more active and positive than are Black women and that's why they do better when it comes to men. When I was dating my Brazilian boyfriend here in the States I held onto him longer than I should have because the thought of having to deal with African Americans and all of their negativity caused me to keep running back to him. Part of my reason to move to Bahia is to get away from African Americans and all of their bitterness and hatred cause personally I'm getting to a point where I really can't stand the ache.
I can see why you feel the way that you feel. As a black woman, you would like to see black women see life in a different light. I too wish that african american women would expand their minds. You see, I don't have a problem with african american men because we're normally supportive of our friends. My friends are very supportive of me spending a year in brazil, and I'm even planning to purchase a home there.
I love my african american sisters, but I'm attracted to brazilian women. I like their looks, hair, different types of skin tones, their language and most importantly, their culture. I know that I can't generalize brazilian or american women, but I CAN speak from my experiences. America has an extremely high divorce rate, and I had to ask myself why. You see, we as americans are being raised to value money, degrees, education, finances and other material things, over family. The problem that we have is that women are raised to have the mind of "I don't need a man." We've replaced the love of family with the gaining of things. Honestly, I want to establish a family. I want a wife, and if god willing, children. I'm happy with my career, and financial status. I plan to get a few more things in order, but overall I'm happy. I'v been trying to study different cultures, and there are more women from central and south america, are more family oriented. Look wise, I think thtat brazil has a more diverse "selection" of women becasue the country is so big and heavily populated. I know that all brazilian women aren't the same, but i do feel that I have a pretty good chance of meeting the type of woman that I want in brazil. I know that all women aren't, but I've found that brazilian women can be really sweet and up front.
It seems to me that a soulmate is more likely to be found by creating knowledge for yourself of another person and not by looking for a "type", whether that type be Brazilian, American, Black, white or whatever.
And soulmate relationships are rarely founded on fantasy. A dream is a great thing to have, becsaue it pushes you to work towards it. Fantasies, on the other hand, tend to go "pop" as soon as reality seeps in. they don't push you to work, but rather to abandon work.
As for Bahia being "Africa in Brazil", that's certainly the line the Salvador tourism board wants people to swallow. But it's sort of like saying that Wisconsin is Germany in the United States.
And what kind of Africa? Slaves in Bahia came from Senegal, on down the west coast to Angola and over to Mozambique. All those places and peoples have different cultures and tradtiions, sometimes radically so. What Bahia has is a mixture of all these different African tradtions and many european and indian ones, too. Capoeira's core african traditions come from Angola, for example and candomblés come from the Yoruba city states along the southern edge of the bay of Benin. No one in Africa plays capoeira or celebrates candomblé and they certainly don't do the both together and the CERTAINLY don't do the both in front of a Catholic church.
So while I understand what Walker is trying to say - and while many Bahians would LIKE bahia to be Africa in Brazil - I have to say that Bahia is mostly like Bahia in Brazil. Most of my Mozambiquean friends, for example, dislike Bahia, while my friends from Benin like it. then again, my friends from Benin are all studying candomblé's yoruba roots while my friends from Mozambique are studying to be engineers. _________________ Brazil is the country of the future and always will be!
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:41 pm Post subject: To Macunaima
Funny Mac that you mentioned Luisah Teish cause I'm so trying to be a part of her "house". I live in Oakland,Cali with Teish and I've taken a few classes with her and have attended a couple of bembes at her house. I have been a student of African spirituality for over 25 years and would like to approach the Orixas through Candomble but unfortunately in the States there are NO Candomble houses. On the West Coast the Cuban influence dominate and Santeri-Lucumi is very popular here in which Teish is a priestess of Oshun. Because Oshun is my guardian Orixa I might initiate with Teish in Cuba and become a part of her house. I'll just do the Candomble initiations when I finally get my butt to Bahia. I love,love,love everything about Bahia and I'm following my good sistah friend and her Dad there. My sistah friend used to teach English in Argentina but being African American she would get homesick for Black faces while there so a co-worker suggested she go to Bahia,Brazil for some down home Black faces. This woman goes in and out of Bahia all of the time and takes groups there for spiritual retreats; in her mind Bahia is the most spiritual place on earth and after visiting with her in 2003 I totally agree. I know that the African influences in Bahia is a mixture of Angola,Nigeria and Benin but whoa Jesus 99 the Bahians got it going on in Bahia. I feel that Africa is DEFINITELY in Bahia. I also read some of the books that you mentioned "From Coal To Cream" and some of Abdias Nascimento's books as well. I also read "A Refuge In Thunder" by Rachel Harding (a very difficult read) and ALL of Luisah Teish's books. I also like Dr.Wande Abimbola's "Ifa Will Heal Our Broken World". Dr.Abimbola will be hosting the next Orixa conference in Atlanta in 2006 and I will definitely be there along with some participants from Nigeria,Cuba and Bahia.
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